June 3, 2007

So that happened.

Posted by seed @ 8:10 PM

By far, this has been the oddest weekend I've had in quite some time. For review, my wife and I adopted a Coonhound Friday evening. She was selected out of three sisters that we had visit on Monday.

Friday was fairly straight forward. We picked the hound up in the evening, getting back late from the burb that her foster parent was located in. After the entire hour-plus ride with me holding her in the front seat (our adult pooch was in the back) she puked as we rolled into our parking garage. I was covered in puppy vomit. We got things set-up at home and bedded down for her first night. Short of a few barking fits, the puppy was fine. My wife slept with her, and we got up every few hours to let her out.

As background, our Rhodesian Ridgeback-Boxer mix has quite a history. We got him from a shelter that my wife volunteered at for several years. He shows sign of past physical abuse as well as severe seperation anxiety. He's the poster pooch for rescue merits. From a stray found on the street to two squares of raw diet and a daily dog-walker, he's got it great. We were looking for another dog that would complement his insecure-alpha personality. He's not great with other animals, ignoring most other dogs and asserting himself with everybody else. We call him our old man. He is so undog like - chews, toys, treats are all useless with him. He never plays, period. So, that's why we picked a very young female that was submissive.

So the first night found the new puppy sleeping on Franklin's bed and he sleeping huddled in the corner. All-in-all, a decent first night. Saturday was another story.

By the time I had gotten back from a morning trip to the store, my wife informed me that our adult dog had what appeared to be a petit seizure. She said that he had a clenched jaw and foamed while mildly convulsing. She said it was quick lasting just long enough to make you wonder what the fuck that was.

As the day progressed, Franklin is not taking things well with the new addition. We set up a kennel that we were going to use with the puppy. He ends up seeking refuge in it to get away from the coonhound, who by the way is the sweetest thing.

By the mid afternoon my wife had decided to take Fanklin for a walk by himself. Before they could get out the door, Franklin had another seizure. This one I witnessed first hand. There is nothing like seeing your dog turn into what looks like a rabid animal. He appeared to be able to hear me, but he had zero control over his body. And the foam was lathered everywhere.

So by now we are thinking things are not going so well. Aside from an application of Frontline Plus flea and tick medicine, which we have used before, the only new thing is the coonhound. Given the stress that Franklin has been through in his past, it is totally possible that his epileptic seizures are brought on by the new arrangment.

After diner and well into a cocktail hour, Franklin had his third episode, a grand mal on the kitchen floor. All I could do was guide him to the floor and keep him from hurting himself any more. The convulsions were full body and severe. The foam lather was immense. My wife and I took him to the Vet ER immediately, with a couple house guest watching the uppy while we were gone.

After the second episode, he had a near seizure while I was sauteing some veggies on the stove. Again, he get stressed at odd times. If the kitchen gets alittle smokey, he wants to leave. So, I had soem asparagus on the flame and did his usual thing, only this time he had some odd facial expressions that were very reminiscent to the epileptic episodes. We were able to calm him down. But both the wife and I were thinking that any more trauma and we would strongly consider relinquishing the puppy in favor of not stressing out our first-born.

After seeing the grand-mal, and a trip to the ER followed by an overnight stay that was highlighted by a black lab that was brough in dead by the family members after being hit by a car, we decided to take the hound back to the foster parent in the morning. Which is what we did today. The $300 adoption fee as well as all the peripherals - kennel, leashes, toys, etc - we donated to a house that just got another liter of nine labs. So it goes, right? I mean we didn't want to leave the new puppy home with Franklin is the dog may have a seizure while we are gone. I couldn't go to work everyday with in the back of my mind.

Only, as it turns out, there may be a side-effect of the Frontline product that can cause seizures. While we were at the ER, we mentioned that we had applied the topical product to our dog the same day. They quickly discounted it,as well as the stress from the new hound, and told us to monitor the symtoms and consider epileptic medicine if they persist. We got that story after we had taken the coonhound back to her original home.

So here were are, Sunday evening. Franklin appears to be fine. The ER did not do a tox screen. So we have no way of knowing if it was the Frontline product or the stress, or quite frankly BOTH. The coonhound has been returned and we are left wondering if we are not complete fucking idiots. I need a god-damn drink.

Comments

I'd lean towards the meds. When purchasing our dog we did a lot of research since GSDs and the other German/Belgian breeds are prone to seizures. I found that generally speaking seizures can only be brought about in a dog in a variety of ways. The only cases I recall regarding stress were due to severe acute physical injury or in the case of dogs with Inherited (genetic) epilepsy. In the latter case, extreme amounts of stress bring out seizures on command in dogs that are already known to have seizures.

I would expect a myriad of behavioral problems around a new dog, even depression, but a physical mality is quite odd.

The thing is, frontline is a pretty acerbic medication despite the fact that it is administered to almost every dog out there (well.. the one's properly cared for). Our dog is about as steadfast as can be in terms of health and temperment (he's an idiot but an overtly friendly one). For about three days after his frontline is applied he can have epsiodes of agitated behavior(not a skiddish or uptight dog) vomiting, diahrea, weak bladder (when excited) and restlesness. It only occurrs after the frontline and we get one or more of the symptoms like clockwork. Its so noticeable that we don't give him the FL during the extreme winter months (he's vaccinated against lime and the like so its mainly a flea risk, but minimal during November in Chicago...)

That said. I don't even play a vet on tv... but that is the experience I have had. Hope the little guy turns out ok, he is a good dog.

Posted by: dutch | June 4, 2007 10:46 PM

Wow, what a bummer, seed. I'm sorry to hear about the seizures and that you ended up having to take that adorable coon hound back. But I totally understand, just very sad.

dutch, I hadn't heard about problems like what you've described with the Revolution but I'll take note of Nande's reactions when she gets her next dosage.

We are planning on getting Nande a companion when we get back from Mexico, I don't expect she'll react the same way since she is all about play and loves, loves, loves when other dogs come to visit.

Sorry for the rough weekend!

Posted by: Erik | June 5, 2007 10:30 AM

Ya, I've never had a dog before Reagan, but my wife has ahd several. She had never heard about it either. I guess serious sides are pretty rare, but lesser problems with it are somewhat common. We have to stagger it with the Heartguard as both at the same time def. leads to a sick dog, but the HG alone yields no problems.

Posted by: dutch | June 5, 2007 9:57 PM

OK, I'll be the smart-ass. If it makes your dog sick why would you continue to administer it? Sooner or later, if you are experiencing nuclear exchanges with the throne, you might consider stepping away from the all-you-can-eat burrito bar.

Until our dog has a flea problem, there is no way we are touching any of that shit again.

As it turns out, Fipronil is the active ingredient in Frontline Plus. Here:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:uhgXDCnvjiIJ:hazmap.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/hazmap_generic%3Ftbl%3DTblAgents%26id%3D1771+fipronil+seizures&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

This product may cause seizures after skin absorption, ingestion, or inhalation. A termiticide product contains 9.1% fipronil. Seizures are listed as possible effects from overexposure to this product. [MSDSonline] Causes seizures in high-dose animal studies;

I did check the other two : Imidacloprid (Advantage) and Selamectin (Revolution). They seem to come up clean. But you know, after seeing a grand-mal, I am not inclined to use any of these products again.

That said, I am appalled by the response by the ER vet and our regular vet, especially the former. We came in with a dog that had not had any previous history of seizures and he had three in one day immediately following the application of an insecticide. They didn't even flinch at it. Which is quite interesting, since they are the primary retailer of such products. Five minutes with the internet and a basic understanidng of the ingredients and any dumbass can figure out that there might be a possibility of adverse reactions.

Posted by: seed | June 6, 2007 6:28 AM

Well, the syptoms are relatively minor in Reagan and only last abouta day. He makes it outside soon enough to keep things out of the house, and the behavioral stuff is minor. It's worth one annoying day a month to keep fleas away and to keep the diseases ticks can cause away. He's vaccinated for Lime, but living out here in the sticks... there is a lot mroe he could get from a tick.

Posted by: dutch | June 6, 2007 5:11 PM

Plus... there's a bit of an environmental issue at hand as well. Where you guys live there isn't too much of a flea/tick risk unless you guys kennel him for a trip or take him to the groomers or the like. We have Coyotes, rabbits, raccoons, oppossums(sic), and sealions roaming in the back yard. I came upon a 60lb coyote carrying a rabbit through my backyard while going out to cover the grill the other night after dark. Lord knows what is roaming around the back yard in parasite form.

Posted by: dutch | June 6, 2007 5:19 PM

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